81 replies to this topic

[Abdullah Hayat]

Salam,

This was a topic I started on another forum a year ago. It was a very interesting experiment and I got some very interesting results. I am gonna post this topic here as well, and see what the crowd at UrbanPk thinks about the issue.

Poll is: Tell us about your ideal solution for Kashmir. If you were asked to make a decision right now in today's circumstances, what do you think should Kashmir's solution be? You can choose to be idealistic, and you can choose to be enthusiastic... but just be serious.

Peace.

[Mohsin Ahmed]

Well,

Lets leave it to Allah. He is the one to decide in the favor or against them. But my personal opinion is to give the entire population of Kashmir to india and have the control the the land.

or they should become an independent state. They struggle upto now should, however, bring, peace and stability.

Well good to have a topic like this Abdullah Sahib and then refered it to the President of Pakistan or the Prime Minister of India.

There must be a solution in the favor of them.

God bless them All.

[Abdullah Hayat]

Salam,

So Mohsin Sahib, basically you are suggesting Status Quo.

I personally like Chenab Formula..... for now.

Peace.

[Suprah™]

Problem is, one cant access Ladakh without going across the Srinagar-Leh highway which is the only viable land route that connects the Ladakh area to the rest of Jammu & Kashmir. Essentially you have to be based in Kashmir to go to Ladakh, and the reason why India retaliated on the Kargil issue was that the hills that Pakistan took over during that time overlooked the vital Srinagar-Leh highway and could have dictated terms for Siachen as all supplies go from that route to India's posts on the glacier.

I wouldnt mind granting the Kashmir Valley area and Ladakh independance as a single state - although most Kashmiris dont like calling people from Mirpur their own - grant Jammu to India while we can hold on to Northern Areas as a proper province.

Even if most Pakistani hawks would frown upon Kashmiri independance, the new state will be essentially heavily pro-Pakistan due to cultural and family links between the new state and Pakistan. So that's something good

[Jilawatan]

In the end, thanks to their economic restrictions they would probably end up joining Pakistan anyway!

[Abdullah Hayat]

Salam,

Suprah, you are right for now... It is true that at this point in time, indians have no route to Laddakh except for Kargil-Dras Highway........ but that won't be the case in near future. Indians are trying to build a road through one of the most difficult terrain in the world to access Laddakh by-passing the Vale of Kashmir. If so, then they will not be so heavily dependent upon Kargil-Dras road for access to the region.

More time we give them, they are establishing more firmly there. My ideal solution is extremely difficult to achieve with great risks; its now or never.... so, we may have to look into other possibilities like Chenab Formula.

Zain: if Kashmir is totally independent, you are right... it would be very heavily dependent upon Pakistan. The only route they have to India is the Jammu-Pathankot highway, and we have terrain hugging monsters with very high precision.

Peace.

[Blushing Khan]

I'm comfortable with more than 1 of the choices... in other words, any thing will do, just get indian rule off poor Kashmiries

[Jilawatan]

Kashmiri freedom fighter puts hope in America:

Monday August 06, 2007: Kalashnikov to Kashmir. That’s what villagers in Pampur say. He’s a folk hero here among the thousands who share his dream of independence. Malik tells me that America is essential to realizing that dream. From the schoolyard to the interrogation room, he has always thought so.

India and Pakistan have been fighting over Kashmir ever since its king acceded his predominantly Muslim state to India in 1947. Over the decades, the India-administered portion has demanded independence, growing increasingly violent as the Indian army swelled to suppress militants.

Yasin Malik was born in 1966. His father was a government servant in Ladakh. He had three sisters, no brothers. His childhood was relatively normal. “When I was ten,” he tells me, “even that young, I had great hope for America.” Classmates and Malik giddily exchanged rumors that “Americans would send troops for the Kashmiris” to help them achieve independence. America distrusted the non-aligned India during the Cold War and cooperated with Pakistan to oppose the Soviet presence in neighboring Afghanistan, so the rumors grew easily that America would also side with Pakistan and Kashmir's Muslims over India's territorial claims. “We had great faith in America.”

Faith was not enough. When he was 18, in 1984, Malik joined the Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF), a movement founded in Britain calling for Kashmiri independence. But Malik's initial nonviolence was met by force from the Indian army. Malik was detained dozens of times and faced harsh interrogations by the Indian army. His heart valve was damaged after a severe chest impact. His faith in nonviolence was shattered. “There was no democratic space for the nonviolent movement…[and] so we became an armed struggle,” he says simply.

When Malik picked up the gun in 1989, JKLF followed him, becoming the foremost militant outfit in Kashmir. That year Malik orchestrated the kidnapping of the daughter of Mufti Mohammad Sayeed, then India’s home minister, eventually exchanging her for fellow fighters. He went on as commander in chief of the JKLF to mastermind the killing of hundreds of pro-India forces in the India-administered part of Kashmir.

In this role, Malik wrote a letter to the President of the United States, George Bush senior, hoping to make childhood dreams become adult reality. With violence spreading across Kashmir’s streets in 1990, Malik asked for U.S. intervention. He got no response. And in August of that year, Malik was arrested by India.

This time he spent four years behind bars and turned to books for the first time. “I read more than a thousand books in jail," he tells me. "I read Khalil Gibran and Iqbal…and biographies of so many leaders across the globe” like Mandela, Arafat, Jinnah and Gandhi. Meanwhile, Pakistan co-opted many of the new militant outfits in Kashmir, providing bullets to those ready to accede to their patron like Hizbul Mujahideen. As a secular nationalist movement, the JKLF was left out and found itself strong on will but short on bullets.
Still the charismatic leader, though in jail, Malik was approached by Indian leaders like Gandhi’s grandson Rajmohan, and American diplomats who urged him to renounce violence in exchange for more power at the bargaining table. These diplomats worried about the Islamic character of new militant groups, and wanted to create a stronger nationalist voice willing to talk not fight. These visitors, along with his reading of world leaders' biographies, convinced Malik that nonviolence could work. So for personal, political and practical reasons, Malik renounced force. He got out of jail in 1994 and ever since has embraced dialog as the means of achieving an independent Kashmir.

His stature has grown since. On September 9, 2001 Malik visited America for medical treatment. Doctors in Washington, DC fixed his heart and his eardrum, also bruised by torture. But just after he arrived, the Pentagon was struck and the two towers fell. He left the hospital to find American streets awash with new interest in Islamic militancy. Malik received invitations to speak at the Brookings Institution, Carnegie Endowment for Peace, Columbia, Yale, Harvard and many more.

“After 9-11 I found a tremendous interest of very key people in the United States,” he said soon after his return. He saw Americans becoming increasingly aware that “long-term success depends not only on military battles but on combating the roots of terrorism…the factors that create an atmosphere of severe poverty and prolonged injustice.” For the first time in decades, America might pay real attention to Kashmir as a primary concern, he thought, not a secondary consideration in order to avoid war between India and Pakistan.

But Malik soon realized this attention was double-edged. While the newfound urgency to resolve the Kashmir issue was a welcome change, he now worries that Americans are too ready to link “the Kashmiri struggle…to [the] Taliban or terrorism.” A minority have been fighting a religiously inspired war for years, he says, but they do not represent the great majority of Kashmiris. A number of the militant groups are secular nationalists seeking independence at best, but would probably settle for a say in the Indo-Pakistan dialog.

Just because “there are Muslims fighting does not mean [they are] Al Qaeda or terrorists,” he tells me. “Kashmir’s struggle is not religious; it is political. It has always been.” He hopes America will appreciate the importance of Kashmir's struggle while differentiating it from the struggles of other militant Islamic movements, and ultimately help him achieve a peaceful resolution.

WP

[Jilawatan]

Hundreds hold sit-in for missing Kashmiris

SRINAGAR ( 2007-08-08 16:16:40 ) : Hundreds of people staged a sit-in protest on Wednesday demanding information about thousands of missing persons in Indian Occupied Kashmir (IoK), as a top leader called for UN intervention.

"We seek the attention and intervention of the United Nations against enforced disappearances in Occupied Kashmir," said Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, who led the sit-in at a park in Srinagar.

"The government is not taking the issue seriously," Farooq told protesters, most of them relatives of the disappeared.

The protesters sat silently under a big tent, many carrying placards bearing the names of missing relatives.

"Where is my son, Mohammed Yousuf Gajri," read one, held high by a middle-aged woman.

Human rights groups say between 8,000 to 10,000 Kashmiris have disappeared since an insurgency erupted in Occupied Kashmir. Most were detained by government forces.

"My son, Sajad Bazaz, was taken by BSF (Border Security Force) on February 12, 1992. I want justice and want to see my son before I die," said his father Ghulam Mohammed.

"We went to everyone who matters but no one helped us," he said.

Farooq, who is also Kashmir's leading Muslim cleric, was the first to sign a memorandum addressed to UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon during Wednesday's protest. Hundreds others also signed the petition seeking UN intervention.

"We hope the world body will come to our rescue," he said, adding that copies would also be sent to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

The Indian authorities say between 1,000 and 3,900 are missing and that some probably headed into Occupied Kashmir for arms training and never returned.



Copyright AFP (Agence France-Presse), 2007

[Mohsin M]

I think the people of kashmir should decide on which side they would like to join. I am positive that the results would show pakistan as the favoured side But the problem is that the indians would not let such a vote take place otherwise the UN would have done this years ago. Independance of Kashmir as a state in my view would be fatal.

[Suprah™]

I think the people of kashmir should decide on which side they would like to join. I am positive that the results would show pakistan as the favoured side But the problem is that the indians would not let such a vote take place otherwise the UN would have done this years ago. Independance of Kashmir as a state in my view would be fatal.

I support an independant Kashmir. They will still be our good buddies because of our much closer links culturally and blood than with India, plus Kashmir will need Pakistan's full support to sustain itself as it is landlocked country with Pakistan providing the best possible way for land-trade to take place. India only has ONE main highway that goes through Gurdaspur into Jammu and up, Pakistan has loads of direct land links.

[Mohsin M]

hhhmmmmm. Sounds a little risky too me. If they will be our good buddies then they may as well join Pakistan. i just don't see the point of creating another independant state at this point in time. I think an independant kashmir would be too vulnerable in todays world. The region has seen enough divides as it is. No need for more. Kashmir was and is ours from the start. it's a shame that the british cut through it when it was totally clear that it should have been in Pakistan.

[Mohsin M]

http://www.dailytime...5-8-2007_pg7_21

Kashmiris mark Pakistan’s 60 years with calls for India to quit

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s 60th Independence Day was observed Tuesday in Muzaffarabad with calls for India to quit the Himalayan state.

Pakistani and Kashmiri flags were raised at the presidential palace in the mountain-ringed capital.

A police contingent presented a guard of honour to AJK President Raja Zulqarnain and Premier Sardar Attique Ahmed Khan, officials said.

The Pakistani flag fluttered over government and private buildings, which were lit-up at night with brightly coloured lights.

Large banners read, ‘Kashmir will become Pakistan’, and ‘Happy Independence Day’. “Pakistan and India should use their energies for the well-being of the people of the region and for the survival of all the people of the world,” said Zulqarnain during a meeting with the AJK PM.

The divided territory of Kashmir has sparked two of the three wars fought between India and Pakistan since their independence from Britain in 1947, and an insurgency against Indian rule began in the state in 1989. A peace process was launched by the two nuclear-armed neighbours in 2004, and although violence has dipped significantly on the ground, there has been scant progress on issues such as troop reductions.

Kashmiris have also seen no movement by India towards addressing the wider issue of the future of the region, with New Delhi refusing to even acknowledge that Kashmir is “disputed” territory. India accuses Pakistan of arming, training and pushing across rebels into Indian Kashmir.

Indian officials routinely refer to Kashmiri rebels fighting New Delhi’s rule in the insurgency-racked Himalayan region as “terrorists”. They charge that Islamabad has done little to rein in militant groups based in Pakistan.

Meanwhile, the All Parties Hurriyat Conference has congratulated the people and the government of Pakistan on the country’s Independence Day. agencies

________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________

You should see how scared the indians are on their independance day of their side of Kashmir. the people aren't allowed to celebrate OR DEMONSTRATE freely.

[Skyscraper_guy]

This is the current status of Kashmir:

[Zain Abbass]

PS: Shaksam Valley was given to China by that fool Bhutto...

[Skyscraper_guy]

PS: Shaksam Valley was given to China by that fool Bhutto...

We should have kept it! As then K2 would have ONLY being ours and we won't have to share it with China! Secondly, India says that because Pakistan gifted a piece of Kashmir to China, it ridicules Pakistan's claim to the rest of Kashmir! China is a great friend, but we shouldn't be blinded by our friendship! I remember people telling me that during Bhutto's time, Chinese influence was at its highest in Pakistan. Bhutto being a Socialist, liked Commie China.

[Zain Abbass]

We should have kept it! As then K2 would have ONLY being ours and we won't have to share it with China! Secondly, India says that because Pakistan gifted a piece of Kashmir to China, it ridicules Pakistan's claim to the rest of Kashmir! China is a great friend, but we shouldn't be blinded by our friendship! I remember people telling me that during Bhutto's time, Chinese influence was at its highest in Pakistan. Bhutto being a Socialist, liked Commie China.

Well technically, K2 is entirely ours considering the only viable route to the peak is on our side including the peak itself. We should buy the tract of land back from China under the banner that we don't want to hurt our Kashmir claims. I am sure China will oblige happily as the tract has very little value. Other than the fact we can kick India's ass of Siachen Glacier by attacking it on both sides.